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LawLieTicp
nsbm is better than this dreck. i used to be a leftist and these shouts are embarassing
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AntiFreeze1349
Fucking wimp ass retards in this shoutbox thinking "anarcho"-capitalism is a thing. Lmao.
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A_R_A_M_S
Free market is also not competition. You're confusing terms. But yeah, competition would exist in a free market; if someone is better than you or works harder, he has propotionally better life; unlike capitalism, where the opposite is often true, because true competition and free exchange doesn't exist.
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songlesssky
"In a voluntaryist society..." ...the one who has the most guns and thugs rules. So much for both left-wing and right-wing anarchism. Anarchopunk is great though.
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Cassandra-Leo
Because the freedom to starve if you can't find work is so appealing. Anarchism literally means "without leaders". Capitalism is incompatible with it.
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Cassandra-Leo
I'll have to tell the people of Norway that they don't have food next time I'm in contact with them. I'm sure it'll be news to them.
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Cassandra-Leo
Depends what you mean by “socialism”, but if you mean “workers have direct control over the means of production”, then of course Norway – & for that matter Cuba, Venezuela, &c – are nowhere near it. (Thanks to Orwell, the best known genuine historical example is probably Anarchist Catalonia.) Here in the US, both the right & the left are as likely as not to count social democracy as socialism, but that’s not true in much of the world; several different definitions of socialism & capitalism exist, & unfortunately, people on sites like this rarely specify which they mean, so they usually end up talking over one another & saying nothing meaningful. This is a big reason I’ve mostly given up seriously arguing politics here; 1K characters isn’t enough space for nuance, & who’s going to bother clicking “show more shouts” 10 times to read long arguments? You’d probably have more luck persuading people on Twitter, despite the character limit; at least its threading is user-friendly.
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AnaalForsage
In a voluntaryist society, those who were opposed to market economies would have every right to go form their own socialist paradise elsewhere. Meanwhile, most of the "true" anarchists seem to want to coerce anyone who wants to live in a capitalist society into living in their shitty commune. Anarcho-syndicalism sounds pretty much like mob rule and doesn't seem that different from statism. Mutualism is cool though.
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ilhicamina
@swillfreat i have heard of "free market," and as Benjamin Tucker says, CAPITALISM IT IS NOT A FREE MARKET. rather, is it you that has heard of the origins of anarchism and what is stands for?
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AnaalForsage
If only these guys were into anarcho-capitalism rather than anarcho-syndicalism :'( [2]
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Nrkpthnstv
Hey! Lets support USA crust Cathasis by voting for pictures and tags http://www.last.fm/music/Catharsis?ac=Cathar fuck Russian power metal lol!
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AlexandrPanglos
Рекомендую: http://www.lastfm.ru/music/S.R.D. Скачать можно здесь: http://rusfolder.com/36416190
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silentbodom91
If only these guys were into anarcho-capitalism rather than anarcho-syndicalism :'(
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SxHxCx
No Walls! is a benefit project to support Anarchists Against the Wall (AATW): direct action group that was established in 2003 in response to the construction of the wall Israel is building on Palestinian land in the Occupied West Bank. The group works in cooperation with Palestinians in a joint popular struggle against the occupation. We are searching for bands of every music genre that support the resistance of plaestinian and israeli civilans to the apartheid. Please, send to us a WAV, AIFF or FLAC file, people can download the compilation "No Walls!" by donating what they do. Comp will be here http://nowalls.bandcamp.com/ Dead line: 14th April Duration between 1m to 5m approximately Money will be donated to http://www.awalls.org/ Contact: geeno-bruce@live.it Thank you.
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skwidthefawks
I'm no anarchy supporter but I love Subhumans and quite enjoy Rudimentary Peni.
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jrvoluntary
Corporations are a governments' greatest convolution. Owners of the corporation get enough tax breaks to continue propagating the government and enough protection to get away with murder.
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noo_dog
"ideologies can't be "empirically observed"" You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly why ideology for ideology's sake is stupid. I was debating the relative strengths and weaknesses of implementing anarchism as an actual political system, but it seems that the community here are only interested in ideological fantasies. Well fantasies are fine, but why take them seriously? Ideological extremism is no different to the religious dogma that I imagine so many of you despise. Returning to a quote; "that's never existed, so to claim that it's bad is dogmatic.". Well I never claimed an ideology was 'bad', but to claim it is good and let it influence your behaviour and attitude towards others in life IS dogmatic. Now I love listening to the odd bit of crust when I'm in a particularly anarchistic mood, but I don't have the audacity nor the simple-mindedness to actively support an ideology which is likely never to exist and of which any real world approximation has been utterly disastrous.
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JTLDN
Noo-Dog doesn't know a single thing about anarchy (or reasoning).[2] / strawman. anarchists believe anarchy to be the absence of authority (which obviously includes tyrants), not just govts. that's never existed, so to claim that it's bad is dogmatic. / empirical observation means an experiment must be controlled for variables, replicable and measurable. ideologies can't be "empirically observed".
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noo_dog
Finally, I'd like to address the point you made that "Anarchy has to be global,it hasn't worked because something outside of the community fucked it up". I think that you're right - if anarchism was really to work in the way most anarchists hope it would, it would not only have to be global, but everyone would have to share the same views and intentions of the proponents of anarchy so as not to exploit the lack of governance to their own advantage. However, this is an incredibly utopian concept, and simply unrealistic, hence I really don't see this as a valid defence of Anarchism as a political view point. As a purely academic ideology, Anarchism sounds great. Then again, look at all the other ideas that sounded great in the past: Marxism, the Zimbabwe African National Union, Zionism along with the Palestine Mandate. I think in more recent times a good example is the Arab Spring. Already we are starting to see that things are worse in Egypt.
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noo_dog
Of course, at the other end of the spectrum, overly-authoritarian regimes usually doom themselves to more primitive existences as well - look at what happened in Cambodia. However it seems that some degree of authoritarianism can actually encourage productivity - look at the significant advancements that both Japan and Germany made during WWII. Now I'm not saying these regimes were good, advancement vs primitivism is not the only qualitative measures of a system of governance. Though as someone who grew up in capitalistic society as you were so keen to point out, I do value advancement, and I think a system of government should at least be strong enough to encourage its citizens to cooperate with and value each other, treat others with respect and not violate human or property rights.
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noo_dog
I did have reasoning behind my argument, and it seems that you disagree, which is fine. However, I take exception to the ad hominem attacks and statements like "Noo-Dog doesn't know a single thing about anarchy.", which is just silly, because 'Anarchism' (I use this instead of 'Anarchy' which is not the political viewpoint, just a word that means lawlessness) is a political viewpoint that, just like every other political viewpoint, thousands of people debate its interpretation and meaning every day. You might not agree with my interpretation of it but I have come across it honestly trough reading and speaking to people who are either proponents or opponents of anarchism. Furthermore, I agree that there is no absolute reason that Anarchy would necessarily lead to primitivism, but as you said growing up in a capitalistic society has allowed me to make the empirical observation that in reality the more a nation tends towards anarchism, the more primitive the lives of its inhabitants are.
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coleheideman
No,anarcho capitalism was made up by capitalists.It's not anarchism it's psuedo bull shit.Anarchism calls for the destruction of Capitalism, Because Capitalism causes competition and greed, and provides a platform for coercive hierarchy.Noo-Dog doesn't know a single thing about anarchy.Anarchy has to be global,it hasn't worked because something outside of the community fucked it up, generally.But he is somewhat correct about not choosing the sytem.There is no plan to achieve anarchy, unlike something like Communism(Marxism).And anarchists don't consider themselves leftist.They'reessentially Jeffersonian Democrats I think.There's no reason why having no government or coercive hierarchy should automatically be considered a bad idea.Being so closed-minded and assuming life would be primitive or something is purely an expression of the effect growing up in a capitalist society has on you.Read up and THEN come back here to be an asshole,when you actually have reasoning behind your argument.
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phoenixsinger93
"Anarcho-socialism makes just as little sense as Anarcho-capitalism." Only if you don't know what you're talking about.
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tiitusnakke
Wow, looking through this shoutbox makes my head hurt.... (2) Saw Antisect 2 days ago in puntala-rock (finland), fantastic gig, tears almost came out. One of my fav @punk band
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noo_dog
Anarcho-socialism makes just as little sense as Anarcho-capitalism. Anarchism with any qualification is a stupid contradiction - if you want anarchy, you can't choose the system anymore - sure you can make suggestions under your new powers of free speech, but that isn't guaranteeing anything. In reality you're most likely going to get a mix of socially benevolent and co-operative cliques, tribes led by warlords, reclusive profiteers, and a bunch of less resourceful/intelligent people who are forced to live a primitive existence. Not to mention all the foreign intervention and corruption. Owait isn't this Africa? Yeah lets live there guys. Hey I'm all for individualism and limiting the oppression of the state, but proclaiming that having no system is a good idea and then arguing about what system you should have with other people who have made the same proclamation makes about as much attention-seeking pseudo-leftist sense as becoming a vegan after listening to an album by the smiths.
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Dicearerandom
I'm actually up for anarcho-capitalism and anarcho-individualism. They're quitye natural in a sense.
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