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hardtoconcentr8
bring back the old last.fm! https://www.change.org/p/cbs-interactive-bring-old-last-fm-back?source_location=petitions_share_skip
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Audiobinge
Submitted a mix for a Bonnaroo Radio DJ competition just now: https://www.mixcloud.com/Audiobinge/2015-bonnaroo-lineup-featuring-all-star-college-dj-black-lightning-kzuu/ It has eight artists that will be playing the festival and I talk about Roo quite a bit so give it a click if you have the time! Only an hour and the playlist is pretty varied so hopefully you'll find a new band or two you enjoy.
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Audiobinge
Day to day school wise or you going back to school for more education? How is teaching by the way? Friends with difference ages and my degree will be secondary. Just curious on the real rubber and pavement aspect. How you find it personally, etc.
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Audiobinge
Happens, back on here a bit but I feel you. Will pass it along ha! We're actually in a contest now design wise so vote if you're into that type of thing! (http://www.awwwards.com/best-websites/has-it-leaked) Back at university for a short year to get my teaching certificate. Took the time to think and it's certainly my calling, to be an educator. Back on the radio Thursdays so you can peep that here: http://spinitron.com/radio/playlist.php?station=kzuu&ptype=n&sv=l&djuid=93#here Indie rock mostly but I think during the school year off of demand I may switch back to loud rock. Washington is fine really but I spend a lot of time in Colorado with Ms. Audiobinge. Still in school yourself or what mathy science wise? All the best from the Northwest man.
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Audiobinge
How's the lady? How's the band? How's that little drowning man? Still treading water I see.
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hardtoconcentr8
I see you've been listening to Murder By Death! I checked them out a few weeks ago and was very pleasantly surprised.
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vibrationofsoul
Friends who listen to We All Inherit The Moon DrownedGreg 26. brofist. Just listened then for the first time and they were great. also I should after a long wait have indian jewl up tomorrow night
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vibrationofsoul
and yeah I've been aight. got a ton of personal shit that drains me and makes my life less fun but music is cool for distractions and I start uni soon so that will take my mind off of it all. How about you? Get up to much for valentines day? Also that suffokate album is so damn good. I might chuck it on after this
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vibrationofsoul
super sorry for the later reply lol. I'm def still your liaison but my p.c is being a p.o.s haha. The screen input died so I have to get a new case before I can use it again and that's where that tiger download is. As for the other 2 listed, no luck but if you have any more I'll do my best to fill those using my laptop
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Audiobinge
Such is LIF. Sitting next to her now actually. Scrobbling and she's doing engineering business via laptop. TA or what specifically? Going back for my certificate soon and wanting my own classroom. Love kids.
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Audiobinge
That's really great man. Ever sit down and music at all? Studied history myself but I plan on getting a master's in teaching. Probably history down the road as a personal goal. Career wise school burnt me out on history though. Wasn't fun anymore. How does the mathy science career look for you? Happy Holidays by the way. Hope it was pleasant and the same with a new year.
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Audiobinge
Born here originally. Moved away with my Dad because of the Army. Came back for school and I've stayed for the past several years. History or maybe add a little English in from time to time. Congratulations on the lady. Did you just propose?
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Audiobinge
Wish I'd of seen them again with Wolf. Or gone to a show on tour with Listener. Get what you mean though. Seattle living I suppose. Looking to go back and finish a few credits so I can become a teacher. Other than that just trying to stay warm. I do but haven't been on in ages. Need to up my ratio a bit before I can get anything from them. How are you? School and family and all.
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Audiobinge
Check out The Chariot on the farewell tour? I'm impressed dude. Been drowning for a long time but those waves haven't swallowed you yet.
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SixBurningWings
And of course, you're "allowed" to think this way, as many do - but you need to recognize that some people, as groups and individuals, are trying to reject the emptiness of the global shopping mall. Black metal was groups of teenagers using metal music as a vehicle to connect with certain spiritual, ideological and aesthetic realities. In the simplest sense, black metal is metal that is 'black'. Deafheaven is certainly not black - and it is arguably not even metal. Hell, the band's frontman doesn't even seem to think it should be called black metal.
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SixBurningWings
I realize that we've talked about this before - and I know that you're resistant to the idea that genres are intrinsically "about something".... but that's an ahistorical concept. As I pointed out in the WitTR thread, the idea that genres of music, art and literature are "meaningless" (by which I mean, they're reducable to form, and they never refer to anything outside of themselves) is quite recent. It's a byproduct of industrialized entertainment, which treats artistic output as something that appears in a store in a mall for you to purchase and enjoy, divorced from any deeper cultural meaning. According to this perspective, gospel music wouldn't have any particular relationship with Christianity, and Tibetan chanting wouldn't have any particular relationship with Buddhism. Country music wouldn't have any relationship to rural white life, and hip hop wouldn't have any relationship with urban black life.
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SixBurningWings
"black metal in 2013 is a very diversified group of musicians drawing from more than one place." Indeed, but Deafheaven are not in that company. Neither are Liturgy, or most of the other bands under discussion. Black metal is more than "tremelo picking + blast beats + mid to high range rasps". Black metal is an idea - or rather, a set of connected ideas. If you go back in time to the late 80s and early 90s, before anyone thought that black metal was a specific way of drumming and playing guitar, you find that it was first and foremost about lyrics, aesthetics, attitude, and worldview. It was about content.
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jazzthreadguy
Oh I thought you said you'd heard that Axelrod record before. Well I'm glad you enjoyed it. It's always been one of my favorites. I'll have to check out 'kozmigroove'
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SlaveOfN1l
To be quite honest with you, I wouldn't have a problem at all with Liturgy if they didn't label their music as black metal, yet "beyond" black metal at the same time, and rather just said that they liked black metal and naturally are influenced by the genre, among other things. Liturgy is definitely doing something new, no doubt about that. Personal taste aside though, I feel like the way in which they stress the black metal elements in their music (as opposed to say...the shoegaze or math rock influences, which are definitely just as present), which comes off as condescending, really rubs me in the wrong way.
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SlaveOfN1l
"how 'outsiders' often fail to understand and value the spirit of black metal" I'll sum it up for you like this....HHH seeks to make black metal positive, happy music. While I'm certainly not a person that is averse to innovation either musically or metamusically if it is done well, there is something about that idea that is just....wrong, to me, on every level, as a black metal fan.
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SlaveOfN1l
Picked up on your very interesting conversation with Wings, and I'd just like to pitch in that the aversion to bands such as Liturgy by members of the black metal "community" tends to correspond with an aversion overall to postmodernist, deconstructionist strains of thought. HHH seeks to strip black metal of all of the subcultural, symbolic, and esoteric connotations that have defined its cultural "infrastructure" to say, and reduce it merely to a set of musical techniques that can be filled by any kind of vibe and image, which usually in the case of most post-black metal comes from alt-rock and/or post-rock. The black metal community tends to be rather conservative and protective of their scene, and probably don't appreciate what from their pov are some cultural Marxists from Brooklyn playing scrapbook with their hallowed artform.
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SixBurningWings
You said some other stuff which was worth responding to as well, but I'm kind of over it at the moment. If you want to argue more about it tomorrow or something, that's cool. Thanks for keeping it fairly civil and not too butthurt.
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SixBurningWings
"are you claiming to be a black metal 'insider'?" <---- Maybe, but that's not the point. By 'insider' I'm really just talking about people who are deeply immersed in the music and the things that go along with it. You can find the words and thoughts of many black metal 'insiders' all over the internet, talking about why they do what they do. Some of them have quite a bit to say about it. I see that you listen to Deathspell Omega - have you read interviews with them? As for myself, I'm nobody important, but I have spent the last fifteen or so years listening to the music, reading and thinking about the lyrics, reading interviews, zines, webjournals, talking to people who share these interests, etc, etc. It's just a question of one's level of immersion. And no, I don't think that 'outsiders' have nothing to say or contribute - I just think they should listen as much as they speak, if not more, when they're speaking about relatively unknown territory.
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SixBurningWings
The idea that all genres of music are "defined by musical attributes, and nothing more" is really asinine when you realize that music is communication. This would be like arguing that genres of literature are defined solely by the types of sentences and words they most often use, rather than the content they try to convey through those words. You're failing to see the forest for the trees. Style and content are interconnected, obviously, but style (in this case, the 'purely musical' aspect of music) tends to evolve the way it does in order to communicate certain ideas, emotions, etc. In black metal's case, this is particularly so. The term 'black metal' started to gain broader usage partly because it was a term that implied a conscious, serious embrace of the aesthetic and lyrical content these bands were dealing with. In other words, it wasn't "just entertainment".
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SixBurningWings
"black metal is defined by its musical attributes, and nothing more." And yet, we find in black metal a wide array of musical styles. One might argue that black metal is defined by the presence of tremolo picking, or the presence of blast beats, or the use of higher 'rasped' vocals as opposed to lower pitched vocals - but each of these assertions can be invalidated by pointing at a number of bands that don't use these techniques. Much more so than other genres of 'extreme' metal' (such as death metal and thrash), black metal has always revolved around an ideal, sensibility or 'spirit', no matter how nebulous it may have been. This is why bands as varied as Antediluvian, Mortuary Drape, Order From Chaos, Abruptum and Deathspell Omega can accurately describe themselves as black metal. The above bands vary quite a bit in terms of the musical techniques they use, but they are connected by the fact that they tap into a similar spirit.
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SixBurningWings
Regarding the sound of the music itself - listening to it right now, it's immediately clear how this is 'business as usual' in the world of alternative rock. The melodic sensibility, the emotional tenor - sometimes it sounds like Neurosis, and more often it sounds like some kind of generic hardcore/screamo imitation of black metal. Nothing new.
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SixBurningWings
Yes, I have read it. No, he does not understand black metal. He addresses a shallow caricature of it. What he calls the 'haptic void' is the heart of black metal, and it is a place of varied substance, not the uniform 'negation' he imagines it to be. He's not transcending it - only briefly skating across its surface before dismissing it in favor of what is (ironically) a much more familiar, much more safe, much more widely accessible and acknowledged spirit. He's making the same mistake that people in the academic world of critical theory often make, which is to speak loudly on behalf of something that they're fundamentally exterior to, while ignoring narratives that have organic roots in the territory.
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SixBurningWings
I'm not challenging your enjoyment of the music. I understand why some people like it. Also, I don't see it as a 'threat' to metal, because I don't think it's really a sign of things to come. The reason why I'm interested in Liturgy is because it's a great example of how 'outsiders' often fail to understand and value the spirit of black metal, and seek to reinvent it in their own image.
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SixBurningWings
I don't think you get what I've been saying. What it boils down to is this: HHH was on to something when he identified a kind of ecstatic spirit of affirmation in black metal. The problem is that he believes (or believed) that this was somehow at odds with, or 'despite', the dark aesthetics, harshness, and hostile ideology typically found in the genre. His attempt to liberate it from its context was totally abortive because he failed to understand that this ecstasy isn't "despite" the darkness, but BECAUSE of the darkness. This is actually the one thing that's really essential and meaningful about the music. Its the axis on which the genre spins. HHH doesn't get it. His music doesn't represent the 'evolution' of black metal, but rather the re-absorption of black metal back into the broader sphere of alternative rock. It's really just a kind of arrogant, loud-mouthed cultural appropriation. This is why it sucks. That and the fact that it's really bland and sonically unoriginal.
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